There is another thing that needs to be thrown out there as a possible scenario, and this would have been the very worst and lowest that David could have sunk to. and for his bloody house. Now that we have established that there was a horrible massacre at some point in the past, remember there was sin, and there was a crime committed. Vote Up There were no conditions. The breach of contract was serious enough that God sent the famine in response. This is in the second commandment. But, the big thing was that he did not consult God about what he should do about it. Web11 Then the king sent for the priest Ahimelek son of Ahitub and all the men of his family, who were the priests at Nob, and they all came to the king. It is the time of the beginning of the barley harvest. The Gibeonites were not Israelites, but the remnant of the Amorites, which Saul pursued from within Israel. What have you been thinking about?". Back to the Gibeonitesmost people probably did not remember it. Deceit and delusion are powerful spiritual weapons of destruction but they pale in potency compared to the creative and edifying Word of God come alive by faith in believers' hearts! As mentioned earlier, there was the rebellion of Absalom. Jew or gentile? This indicates that God was not pleased, whatsoever, with how this situation was resolved by David. "There was a famine in the days of King David for three years, year after year. God tells us that, spiritually, we have to go and wipe them out. It was not just Saul, but other members of his family. What do we do in a time of spiritual famine? Joshua 9:14 is the key to Israel's problem. So they performed all that the king commanded. Perhaps he thought, "Hmm. If people grow up in a society and culture that does not have God at their beck and call, they do whatever they wantwhatever comes naturally. However, there was not. They did not seek God in this matter. They decided to fight with the Gibeonites and teach them a lesson. Jamieson, Fausset and Brown comments: It was a heathen practice to gibbet men with a view of appeasing the anger of the gods in seasons of famine, and the Gibeonites, who were a remnant of the Amorites, though brought to the knowledge of the true God, were not, it seems, free from this superstition. WebKing Saul later broke the treaty that Joshua had signed and attacked the Gibeonites. They handed their enemies hard, stale, moldy bread and told them it had been freshly baked when they left home. This is a bit unusual. God did not necessarily overlook all their sins, but He certainly forgave them. This is certainly not the David of Psalm 34, where he wrote. Israel plagued by allowing the deception WebSaul slew the Gibeonites, not simply as the son of Kish, but as the king of Israel, and therefore involved all Israel with him in the violation of the national oath; and hence, until the evil should be put away by the execution of the immediate offender or his representatives, all Israel must suffer. The Gibeonites deceived Israel, but God's people had really deceived themselves. Now, if they participated in his sin, then of course, they will bear the guilt for their participation in that sin. WebSaul, Israel's first king thought he knew better than God. WebTranslation Details for 2 Samuel 21:1 Then there was a famine in the days of David three years, year after year; and David enquired of the LORD. This could indicate that the sons of Saul were actively implicated in this attempted genocide, although we cannot tell for sure as the details of this awful event are not recorded. Our God has given us a law that says such and such, so this is what we are willing to do for you.". David did not come to this with any regal neutrality in the least. But talk about your flawed heroes! Were they participants in killing the Gibeonites? Whatever the case, it is very plain to me that he did not pay enough attention to this matter of the famine and drought, and the Gibeonites. The soul who sins shall die. There are references to the Lord, but they are not references in a spiritual sense. He keeps his word even to his own disadvantage and does not change it [for his own benefit] (Psalm 15:1, 4; AMP). His anger at the King David was perhaps the only converted person in the entire nationmaybe besides the high priest of the time, but we do not know. I do not know if that was the case, but he had just gone through Absalom's rebellion, and Sheba's rebellion, and maybe he allowed that to cross his mind too. Samuel turns away; Saul grabs at him and only catches his robe, and tears it. If we would go through Luke 21:7-12, we would see that Jesus gave His disciples indications of what would happen if the time of the end began. That is that he could have gone along with the Gibeonite's demands in order to get rid of seven possible contenders for his throne. Then, pray for all you are worth so that your relationship with God and Jesus Christ is strong when the famine hits. And how do I know this? He was humble and relied on God, and was granted many victories over Israels enemies. Things started to go downhill over time however, as Saul became presumptuous and arrogant; he ignored several direct commands of God, and the last straw came when he interfered in offering a sacrifice to God, in direct contravention of what hed been told to do. PHARAOH AND HAMAN - That is how we overcome the dearth of the truth and the dearth of righteousness in our day. There was no negotiation; there was no calling them on anything. You're out of here!". It is very clear, and very simplejust two little verses. God only let the rain cycle start again. It's much too heavy any more!" Also, they were hanged on the hill before the Lord. the LORD answered, It is for Saul, and for his bloody house, because he slew the Now, if we would go through II Samuel 24, that even though David made a huge mistake in chapter 21, he did it right in chapter 24. To put it in a more modern time setting, a lot of people prefer Batman (the dark one), or Spiderman (the geek), to Superman for the very same reasons. Instead of warfare and bloodshed, their weapons were guile and deceit. David was annonted by Sammuel Apr 10, 1035. WebThe Lord answered, Saul and his family of murderers are the reason for this shortage, because he killed the Gibeonites. 2 Samuel 21:1 American Standard Version (ASV) 1 And there was a famine in the days of David three years, year after year; and David sought the face of Jehovah. These curses are things like diseases that might affect genetics, and they came as the result of sin. However, there was a difference between Israel's version and the Gentiles' principle of vengeance or retribution. He just weakly said, "Oh okay, whatever you want. So the king called the Gibeonites and spoke to them. Perhaps these last few verses suggest that, in burying the bones of Saul and Jonathan, David repented of his sins regarding this whole incident. King David came at it from a position of weakness, not of one who knew God's law and could answer these people from spiritual strength. Obviously, having seen what happened to Jericho and Ai, they knew God and Israel were serious. Without checking out their story; without surveying the geographical situation; most of all, without consulting the Lord and waiting for His guidance, Joshua went impulsively ahead and signed a binding, lasting agreement with the Gibeonites. They knew! You might say a whole cycle of generations. The midrash states that when Saul learned of this, he was angry with his daughter and demanded of her: Why did you deceive me and let my enemy escape? You are getting later and later in David's life here. You had only black and white television if you had television. Saul, after having disqualified Report. On the mammoth scene of world history this minor alliance would rank as a minute encounter. And they went to Joshua, to the camp at Gilgal, and said to him and to the men of Israel, "We have come from a far country; now therefore, make a covenant with us. 1316). In other words, we want them to be just like us. And they took old sacks on their donkeys, old wineskins torn and mended, old and patched sandals on their feet, and old garments on themselves; and all the bread of their provision was dry and moldy. They wanted blood by putting to death seven male descendants to die for the crimes of that house against the Gibeonites. We know that you said not to make a covenant with the people the land. Joshua 9:22-24 Then Joshua called for them, and he spoke to them, saying, "Why have you deceived us, saying, 'We are very far from you,' when you dwell near us? He apparently killed Does the Bible encourage the practice of Lent? By this time, Moses had died and was buried. Saul committed a great crime against Gibeon and the Gibeonites. 12 Saul said, Listen now, son of Ahitub.. Justice seems to have been served. fit into Creation? WebAnd the Lord answered, Saul and his family of murderers are the reason for the famine, because he killed the Gibeonites. 2 (The Gibeonites were not Israelites. Something is wrong. In 1 Samuel 10, Saul first tries to kill David by straight up pinning him to the wall with his spear, but David dodges twice. About two years ago, Barry Watson, our lone member in Namibia, wrote me an email message in which this incident was at the heart of it. We have all these things coming at the end time, which is very short. And it very seriously affected his judgment in this matter. . 'Whoever kills a person, the murderer shall be put to death on the testimony of witnesses [another layer that comes in]; but one witness is not sufficient testimony against a person for the death penalty. When asked about the time of the end; when questioned about the signs that would precede His Second Coming, our blessed Lord instinctively cautioned: "Take heed that no man deceive you." The Bible does not provide us the details of this killing. Or as the Gibeonites said Saul consumed them and tried to destroy them a people Israel had entered into a covenant with 400 years earlier. The angel of the LORD encamps all around those who fear Him, and delivers them. Although the people of Israel had sworn to spare them, Saul had sought to strike them down in his zeal for the people of Israel and Judah. It won't do anybody any good lying here dead. At the time the Israelites under Joshua invaded the Promised Land of Canaan, most of the inhabitants rose up in arms against them. After that, God heeded the prayer of the land. God has torn the kingdom from you. The Bible helps us in this way, because it is full of examples of flawed heroes of faith. Only when the Gibeonites were under siege from a common enemy and were calling in the marker on their mutual aid treaty did the Israelites turn to God for counsel and advice. It certainly happened because it says there in verses 1 and 2 that Saul killed a lot of Gibeonites at some point in his reign. It is his sin. They were the five sons of Merab, Saul's daughter. Probably what happened was that they put them on the top of the hill at Gibeah, so that God in the Tabernacle could "see" the execution being done. He did not negotiate at all. Gave 7 of Saul's sons to the Gibeonites. He went after a people that God did not want exterminated anymore. When He visits the iniquity upon successive generations, He is saying is that the results and curses that come automatically often go down a handful of generations. These are the two hints. He enslaved them all, and made them wood cutters and menial laborers at the Tabernacle. Guilt for sin is not hereditary. That is the bottom line. They were probably in middle age, 45-60. It cut us off from God. The chronicler, herewhoever he wasis giving us a big hint that David's attention was elsewhere for three whole years. Where have you been, David? The Gibeonites have the dubious distinction of having duped Joshua and the elders of Israel. With a careful reading and a bit of thought, you will begin to raise some questions. One is God's judgment upon the actual person for the actual sin; the other is God's punishment that He has automatically put into the law that allows the effects to last for a few generations. God isn't very pleased that these bodies have been exposed for six months against His law.". There was not a cloud in sight and you are the king. In fact, it can be read as if David approached it as only a minor administrative matter. In effect, what they wanted to do was hang the bodies of Saul's family in Saul's hometown in sight of Jerusalem. All it is, was, "We want blood, and anyone from the house of Saul will do.". It takes into consideration things like accidental death, and premeditation. Then Ishbi-Benob, who was one of the sons of the giant, the weight of whose bronze spear was three hundred shekels, who was bearing a new sword, thought he could kill David. So, others besides Saul were guilty. But they refused the offer. This incident appears in time sequence toward the end of his life. He has mercy, and holds the curses to just a few generations, but He allows the results of doing righteousness to last forever. However, if they did not participate, they are not going to be given a black mark by God for something that they did not do. Yes, my lord, he answered. There is a difference. Then there is another thing. Why didnt Abraham bargain with God when it came to Isaac being offered as a burnt offering like he did when it came to Sodom and Gomorrah? We are not finished with that yet, because, who were the Gibeonites? David was Born Mar 2, 2022 A three-year famine occurs as a result of Sauls attack on the Gibeonites Mar 2, 2022. He came at this as though he were guilty with Saul; that all Israelites were guilty with Saul and his house. Joshua 9:3-6 But when the inhabitants of Gibeon heard what Joshua had done to Jericho and Ai, they worked craftily [remember that], and went and pretended to be ambassadors. The Bible doesnt really say. This is taken from the book Antiquities of the Jews, pg. 7: AFTER this, when the country was greatly afflicted with a Weba motive for Saul's attack on them. He did this "in his zeal for. And that is why God heeded the prayer of the land. So he said, "Whatever you say, I will do for you." One of the things He specifically mentions is famine, which happens to be the third sealphysical famine, but we remember from Amos that there is a spiritual famine as well. He needed God to forgive him. When did Saul kill these Gibeonites? WebThis points to their employment in the sanctuary; and possibly may shed some light on the massacre of the Gibeonites by Saul (2 Samuel 21:1). They had remembered it for 40 or 50 years. Evidently, that is what he did. But Joshua had the final decision. Notice God declares that the bloodguilt was not just on Saul, but also his house. He just let the natural cycles take their course. There were not very many of them left. DESTRUCTION AND CORRUPTION ", God answered immediately, "It is because of Saul and his bloodthirsty house. And the LORD answered, "It is because of Saul and his bloodthirsty house, because he killed the Gibeonites." They were a group of Amorites. In the economy of God's providence, however, such tiny events often matter much. The two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, whom she bare unto Saul ( v.8 ) Go back with me to Deuteronomy 7 and see the instruction that God gave to Israel about how to deal with these kinds of people. * 1 Samuel 18:12 KJV And Saul was afraid of David, because the LORD was with him, and was departed from Saul. * 1 Samuel 18:15 KJV Wherefore when S He had a body of law that he could have referred back to and come up with a solution. We are talking about the possibility of only two of the seven even remotely having any guilt in this matter whatsoever. We have our own sins to pay for; we do not pay for theirs. They are still there. Matt 24:4/Mk 13:5/Lk 21:8. Report, September 02 2013 David did not make any counter demands. Why did Herod like to listen to John the Baptist, who criticized Herods lifestyle? God took the initiative in this matter, by afflicting the nation of Israel with a famine because the house of Saul had put the Gibeonites to death. And we are supposed to be ready. We do know the Gibeonites were cutters of wood and drawers of water for the altar of God the tabernacle was at Gibeon. "No, we don't do things like that in Israel. He had to sit there and judge people with all the little things they constantly brought up to him that seemed to need his decision on. The prophet Zechariah asks a question that is forever pertinent to all spiritual considerations and decisions: "For who hath despised the day of small things?" Notice verse 2 says that Saul tried to strike them down in his zeal (also means jealously or envy) for the people of Israel and Judah. So the king called the Gibeonites and spoke to them. Vote Up He was distracted by the cares of this world, by the pulls of this, that, and the other thing, and so he gives in and compromises with the people of the land. It seems that modern Westerners want their heroes flawed. I think that this was a test from God, and David failed spectacularly, except in keeping his promise to Jonathan. Ezekiel 18:19-20 Yet you say, 'Why should the son not bear the guilt of the father?' In 2 Samuel 21:1-14, we see that Saul committed an awful crime, and this caused famine in Israel. King David was probably huffing and puffing, "I can't lift this thing! They were appeasing their own god to send rain. There is a very important difference. You can read about them for yourself in the Book of Joshua, chapters nine and ten. It does not require at all times that a person guilty of bloodshed die. Clarify Israel had to live with those consequences for years to come. It is not the sin of Adam and Eve; it is their own sin. King David was compelled to hand over his own people to the power of Israel's ongoing enemies. The Gibeonites take the young men and essentially lynch them, leaving the bodies of Sauls sons and grandsons to rot, exposed and humiliated in the presence of God at a local shrine. They engaged in battle, and Israel won, but the people and king Saul said, "Look at all this nice livestock! And those two are questionable. According to a May 2007 George Barna Poll, 63% of Americans, mostly professing Christians, believe that Jesus sinned during His physical life! And King David rolled over and let this happen. Something is wrong, David. When this righteous ruler turned to God, the Lord showed him that arrogant error of his predecessor. They were going to come in there and just exterminate. He attempted the genocide of And the Lord said, There is bloodguilt on Saul and on his house, because he put the Gibeonites to death. 2 So the king called the Gibeonites and Only in one sense, there was a fall of man, but certainly not in the traditional sense. This is like offering them reparations for what Saul had done, and they replied that it was not good enough. And Samuel says, "See? A person dies for his own sins, not those committed by someone else, whether father, son, or black sheep uncle. Completely ignoring God's explicit command to spare the Gibeonites, Saul decreed it was time to remove them completely by exterminating them. WebThe Gibeonite Deception - Now when all the kings west of the Jordan heard about these thingsthe kings in the hill country, in the western foothills, and along the entire coast of the Mediterranean Sea as far as Lebanon (the kings of the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites) they came together to wage war against Joshua and It shows you just how far things had sunk in the land. Over the years I've urged our Fellowship to check out, investigate and take to heart such biblical alarms. This shows that this portion of the story in II Samuel 21, hanging the bodies for six months or so, was an additional curse upon the land. How many died in bar-fights? Two years is a long time. Even so, maybe there were even worse problems, perhaps, and David was blind to them for three years. Is there something I'm missing? He committed colossal sins that whole nations would be held in contempt for. Yet, the Bible specifically says in Hebrews 4:15 that He was without sin. The Bible implicitly hints at something which caused a feud which was settled only by the blood of Sauls descendants. The problem was that God had not told Saul to do this, God had told Joshua to do that. Another group, however, argues that as God's anointed king, Israel and Judah," who may have fretted at the inconvenience of having the Gibeonites among them. Also, the Lord pronounced, It is a result of the massacre by Saul and welcome classification because Saul indeed destroyed the Gibeonites in the Bible. Perhaps trickery will be better than war for us.". Good question. He had to plead to God for clearing and forgiveness, for cleaning up, because he knew it was not in himself to do that. All answers are REVIEWED and MODERATED. We have to understand that the people of the land represent the things we need to overcomeour human nature and our problems; the world and its pulls to its ways; and Satan and all the ways that he tries to manipulate us. He did not perform any miracle, or any other thing to show that He was happy with the way that things turned out. It was common knowledge. This was obviously later in his life and reign. But that conclusion is a bit too sanguine once you begin to look into that which is not said, or what is said elsewhere. If we would go back to Leviticus 26, we will see that David should have known that famine was no small thing in God's arsenal. You are no longer fit to be king." Then they answered the king, "As for the man who consumed us and plotted against us, that we should be destroyed from remaining in any of the territories of Israel, "let seven men of his descendants be delivered to us, and we will hang them before the LORD in Gibeah of Saul, whom the LORD chose." In addition, after this was the rebellion of Sheba, in which there were all kinds of disruptions until Sheba was killed. Report He is able to judge justly. If the Gibeonites brought guile and deceit into the land; it was Saul who set the example for deep and devastating Spiritual Strongholds (Part Two): Faithful Trust. I know that he had other family problems because the prophecies said that he would. Turn to Exodus 20 and see that right in the Ten Commandments it sounds like it could mean that sin does travel down the family tree. And, it certainly does not record that David took this to God for His solution to it. That would be a town in Benjamin just north of Jerusalem. 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